Episode 186: BlizzCon Rules (Pt. 1) - Tales from BlizzCon 2026 and World of Warcraft: Forever!

[00:00:04] Warning, this program contains strong language, auditory violence and mental nudity. It is intended only for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Uncensored Home for World of Warcraft news and opinions. This is Unshackled Fury.

[00:00:33] Dr. Nanaheim and left nothing to spare as we reveled in BlizzCon 2026 and brought home stories to share. So welcome back for episode 186 of your Uncensored Home for World of Warcraft news and opinions, Unshackled Fury.

[00:01:22] I'm your host Berzerker and with me once again is the man for whom no old fashioned is too strong, Mr. Jez Corden. Welcome back again good sir. Hello dude. How's it going? Did you get back alright? You had a big road trip. Yes. Yes. And uh, despite the road trying to kill me, I made it. I made it in one mostly one piece.

[00:01:48] Uh, it's a long drive and some crazy stuff can happen in some parts but um, I did make, I discovered a little bug within our vehicle that I drove. That will sometimes show you that you have no gas when you in fact do have gas. Uh huh. And so you may slightly panic when you see that you have no gas and you should have gas. Like, oh no!

[00:02:13] Someone siphoned my gas while I was in Denny's or somebody poked a hole or something crazy happened. So uh, other than that minor freak out, uh, I did, I did make it back okay. But you, you had, you had the big travel. You, you're the one that had to fly halfway around the world. But uh, it looks like, looks like you made it back okay. I did. I did indeed. One piece. I managed to sleep the whole way on the plane on the way back. So. Really? Pretty much, yeah. Nice.

[00:02:43] When I left it was like, oh there's 10 hours on the clock and then I closed my eyes for a second. And when I opened them again, it was like, oh one hour to landing. I was like, oh sweet. You needed it. Yeah. I think I did. I was, I was severely ill during Blizzcon. So if you got, if you met me at Blizzcon and you got like a cold or something, it's probably my fault. So I apologize profusely. I was fine.

[00:03:06] So I, I am impervious to these things or I was already sick one of the two, but uh, yes, we, uh, we are back from Blizzcon. It was, it was a, a hail and hearty Blizzcon full of all kinds of things. In fact, there was so much to it that we're actually going to split episode one 86, this one, uh, into two parts and I'll do my best. We'll do our best here to give you two full episodes, not just part B. Here's the rest of the conversation that we had.

[00:03:34] I don't, we'll, we'll try to, you know, through the movie magic here, uh, create two full episodes for you. Uh, so you get, uh, everything that you've come to expect around these parts. And if all, uh, works correctly, you may be getting this as the first video that we've put on Spotify. Uh, looking at, uh, the availability and possibility there. And just pointed this out.

[00:03:59] Uh, I believe we can upload this to Spotify as a video, but still have audio for, uh, you podcast freaks out there, uh, are, are still our main and lovely audience. So if it messes up, well, I will figure it out. You'll have to let me know. But, uh, but if, if you are watching this on Spotify, hello, welcome. Uh, hope you enjoy the ride.

[00:04:27] If not, listen, there's like 50 other thousand Warcraft creators as I've come to find out over the past, uh, 10 days. So, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll do our best though, to keep your interest here. Uh, and also, uh, you know, I'm going to throw this out right at the top. I want to say hello to a Kevin from Sacramento. He was one of the fine listeners that I met out in the world, uh, who lurks and never says anything. And he's like nine feet tall and he seemed like a nice guy.

[00:04:52] Uh, so, uh, Kevin, hello, wherever you're rampaging around Sacramento, hope it's well. Uh, and keep, uh, keep your foot, uh, on the gas. Uh, and Jez for, for our metal album of the week to kick off this first half of the episode, I'm, I'm going to bring up some, some generational trauma for you as it was very relevant. As last night went and saw the 40th anniversary edition of the transformers, the movie.

[00:05:22] And of course, those of us of a certain age, we had to watch as our hero, Optimus prime and a bunch of others, quite frankly, uh, Autobots and Decepticons alike. We're just slaughtered needless need needlessly, uh, Optimus prime being the most famous of these. And for 40 years, uh, we've had to live with that, that trauma and, uh, credit to the transformers folks. They wanted to bring this all kind of to a head.

[00:05:51] And so for this year, they've been on an apology tour and promising something big. And really it was just this being re-released in theaters that they did have the reformatted edition of the soundtrack as well. And that's the one I have posted here, but the soundtrack from this movie is phenomenal. One of the most famous songs, of course, on it is, uh, you know, you, you've got the touch, right? The touch that, you know, you've heard that God forever.

[00:06:18] People may actually know that more from Boogie Nights than they know, uh, from this one. Marky Mark was singing that song. Um, but you, the, the, the touch, uh, there's a bunch of metal songs on there. Uh, there's a weird owl song on there. Uh, dare to be stupid. The transformers song itself, which is just kind of the main theme is a banger. You put that thing on. And even if you're not a runner, you're ready to hit that a hundred, a hundred yard dash and just blast through a brick wall.

[00:06:47] It is fantastic. It holds up super well. The reformatted edition. It's okay. It's, you know, it's, it's slightly different versions of it, uh, of the songs on this one. But I was jamming the shit out of this thing yesterday. Took the boy to the theater to see Optimus Prime dying, the theater, just like we all did. And it doesn't quite land. Yes. Uh, the same on the younger generations as it does.

[00:07:16] No, they grew up with like, like, one thing I noticed about the younger generations is like that. They're growing up with like actual horror. Yeah. Like stuff like, um, skibbity toilet thing. Yeah. And it's like these, these kids have grown up with like actual and Friday and five night of freddies and shit like that. These like genuinely scary kind of things. Oh, they're like, yeah. And then you look at like, well, Unicron kind of feels kind of pedestrian next to some of this shit.

[00:07:47] It's, it's a little different. It's a little different. I would say, but, uh, but if you, if you haven't given this a listen in a little while, I highly recommend it. Uh, the original version still holds up really well. Like I said, the reformatted edition, uh, not, not too bad. Um, but yeah, this is from July 24th, 1986. So we are, we are just past the 40th anniversary. The soundtrack, I think technically came out a little bit before the movie might have, uh, maybe by a couple of weeks, uh, something to that effect.

[00:08:16] But, uh, if you haven't listened to it, highly recommend it. Lion, the like makeshift band that did the transformer song. Fantastic for the, for the five minutes that they existed. So, uh, there you go. There's your metal album for the week, uh, at least for this week and we'll kick it off, uh, there. And now, well, we got to jump into the Blizzcon portion of the show. And well, I, I got a sad, I got a sad piece of rage that I need to pass on here.

[00:08:45] So, uh, here's, here's, here's what we're going to do, uh, for that. Let's rage. So we'll talk about our experiences at Blizzcon, uh, and of which there were many. Uh, but one of the sort of hallmarks of a Blizzcon visit is of course the, the, not, not the convention itself, but kind of like the after parties that go on.

[00:09:13] You're, you're bouncing back and forth between different locations. Uh, typically it's the Hilton and the Marriott. And I hate to say it, you know, I went to my first Blizzcon when I was, let's see, 33. I was 33. We got very inebriated. I was standing on tables. We were yelling at people and having a good time and it was crazy.

[00:09:39] And I, I'm still convinced we're the reason why the Hilton has had a DJ every year since 2014, because of the antics that we were pulling in, in the Hilton lobby there. Um, but, uh, I've noticed, especially this last round and the three years since the last one is Jez. I'm just getting older and there are, there are way, way, way too many young, good looking people at these events.

[00:10:08] I'm just getting older and more unfuckable as the years go on. And it is just, it is a sad state of affairs as I, as I just catch a reflection in the mirror or some shiny surface. And then I look over and I see, you know, a bunch of young people partying it up and looking good. I'm like, man, I don't, I don't know. I think I got to get out of here. I think, I think the time has passed. I think, I think my day has, has been had.

[00:10:38] And as I, as I descend into the depths of middle age and beyond, uh, I just, I just, I, I, I, I, I think that's the time when you got to start drinking and go, okay, if I feel good, maybe I look good. And then I don't know, maybe I look as good as that 30 year old guy over the, and I don't, uh, and I, and I never will again. Uh, and it, and it is, it is the sad truth.

[00:11:02] Uh, when you get out into public and big events like this, and it's been a chunk of years in between the times that these things happen. And so you're not the same as you were the last time. There's only been, you know, a handful of these in the last so many years, but man, I've aged a lot in between those years. And it, it is a sober reminder of the fact that time just marches on, uh, despite, uh, how you may wish it to be otherwise.

[00:11:29] But yeah, that was, that was a rough one. And time, I don't know why you're so savage and rugged to so many of us. You, you, you could slow down just a little bit, uh, for some of us, maybe, maybe we would feel, uh, you know, sexy again, but I don't know. It, maybe, just maybe sexy is a state of mind. Maybe it's less about, you know, the, the outward visage.

[00:11:53] Maybe, maybe it's more about, you know, I, I got, you know, I feel in my mind like I'm David Hasselhoff Baywatch in the eighties levels of hotness. And if, if I, if I think I look like that, then maybe I do. Is that, is that the trick? Is that how I overcome?

[00:12:16] Um, you know, it's kind of, it's kind of funny you say this because you are not the only person around our age who said this exact same thing to me. A BlizzCon. So, um, but the thing is, I've never had this issue because even when I was younger, I was decidedly unfuckable. So, yeah. Um, I don't believe that at all. I can't, I cannot relate. I can't relate. So, yeah, I don't know.

[00:12:43] Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, there was a lot of young people there. I mean, in, in a way it's kind of like, it's kind of a good thing. Cause one thing I've always wondered about Blizzard is like, can it appeal to the youth? And I think like in order for studios to be sustainable, they kind of have to appeal to the youth. This is true. A lot of us have aged out. Right. I mean, they're literally calling well forever millennial retirement home, which is kind of like, damn, you know, you say that. Yeah.

[00:13:12] It's a, yeah, I wasn't the first person who said that. It's, um, it's just sort of the meme. It's, it's how it's being seen, you know? So, yeah, maybe this is like, Bob, this is a big plan and like retail become more like fortnight. And I don't know, Travis Scott or someone will show up in the game or Kylie Jenner or what the kid, whoever the kids like these days. Oh boy.

[00:13:37] And then, um, and then well forever we'll be like where they ship the rest of us off to spend out the rest, the rest of our twilight years. That's part. Yeah. I don't know. Well, I have heard of some things, uh, happening and, and old folks getting up to some things in those retirement joints. So you may, you know what, maybe just, maybe there's hope for us after all. We just, we just, we'll hit that retirement hard, the retirement home hard. And then, uh, we'll get out.

[00:14:07] We'll get all groove back. Still got a groove back. We can too. All right. Well, now that, now that we've had that cold splash of water, that, that dose of reality, maybe let's jump into our news. Let's talk about BlizzCon because if people want to know Jez, what kind of good time you had?

[00:14:33] So for the first time, Mr. Jez Corden got to get his hands on BlizzCon live and in person. This will be, this, this has been, uh, this has been my fourth, uh, that I've been able to get to, which sometimes the schedule, hasn't always worked out, but, um, I think, I think we, we, we did about as much as really two people could do at the convention.

[00:15:00] And part of that was, I think, born out of just being there and doing stuff and trying to consume all that we could. Part of it was the media aspect of it. Jez, you certainly got to live that to its absolute fullest. I think of anybody, uh, that got to be there and participated in any of the media stuff.

[00:15:22] Um, and then just this sort of extracurricular outside of BlizzCon immediate stuff that I was just talking about, uh, getting out and seeing people and doing things and having fun. Uh, so I, I kind of wanted to walk people through a little bit, you know, what our experiences were like, you know, we saw a bunch of folks, but there's also a lot of folks, uh, that can't make it. And, you know, maybe they'd want to hear, uh, about, uh, what we had going on.

[00:15:49] So overall, Jez, I think I recall you were there the Thursday before to the Monday after, right? Yes. That's right. And I came in Friday, the evening after late afternoon, evening ish also left Monday, Monday morning. And what did, did you, did you actually do anything on that Thursday coming into that Friday? Were you just trying to catch up on begging out a few articles and getting some rush?

[00:16:19] Brock, I honestly can't remember. I think I just went straight to bed. I think I went to bed at like eight, eight PM or something. And then woke up at like five in the morning. Like Thursday was a blur. I really, literally, genuinely can't remember. Like I was also very ill. So like flying in on Thursday, it was when like, whatever I had, like flu or a cold or something like that. I didn't quite have a fever, but I had a really badly sore throat. I was very tired. I was very slimy.

[00:16:48] I was just like, you know, I didn't have a mask or anything. So I was trying to like go around coughing into my sleeve, make sure not to cough on anyone, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I was like, I was quite out of it. Um, I also had some like personal issues that I was dealing with, um, in my family and stuff, which, you know, was kind of weighing on my mind, which is what like on Friday, like if, if anyone here met me on Friday or maybe even Saturday and I felt, I seemed like I was out of it. I was ill.

[00:17:16] I was jet lagged and I was, you know, a bit, a little bit down to be honest. So, and, uh, so I apologize profusely. If I seem like I was off or something like that, it wasn't you, it was me. But, um, so there was like this sort of, I had this kind of sense that like, I wasn't really experiencing BlizzCon to its fullest because I had all this other shit going on. Yeah.

[00:17:42] And, um, I won't say it ruined it for me because it was still an amazing experience. And I got to meet so many cool people, including yourself. But, um, it was just because of everything else going on. It was like, it was so hectic. Like, I think like after getting home, cause it's, it's been, I've been home a week now, but it doesn't feel like it. No. Cause I've just spent like, I've literally just spent the last week in bed. Pretty much.

[00:18:11] Like, like getting up to slithering out of bed to do like a quick article and then slithering straight back to bed to feel sorry for myself. Um, that's kind of like been my week. So it's, it's kind of shocking to me that it's already been, I've already been back a week. It's already like almost a week out from traveling back from BlizzCon. It doesn't feel like it, man. So it's, it's been a blur. It still hasn't sunk in. This was, this is a big deal for me. It was like the closest thing, I suppose, to a religious pilgrimage for me.

[00:18:40] Um, you know, I was, I told the story before about how my band was played at BlizzCon 1. It's meant so much to me. It's got me through such tough times in my life. Um, in my twenties, I was a complete mess. And in my thirties, I was slightly less of a mess, but still a mess. And as I approached 40, I'm again, still a mess. Gradually getting there. I think slowly figuring things out.

[00:19:07] Um, like, you know, the best of us, right? But, uh, I don't know. It was really amazing experience. And I hope like the next time I get to go there things, hopefully I'm hoping they'll be a little less hectic. That's kind of what I'm hoping for. It's a lot to take in. And I think that that's just kind of an overarching comment that I would make to everyone, especially folks that haven't been there is the whole convention is a lot.

[00:19:34] If you think about just the convention itself and the time that the doors open to the time that the doors close, it's not, it's only like 30 something hour, like 32 hours or something like that. The whole convention itself is actually really short, but there's a lot going on because the halls are huge. There's a million things going on. There's so many people. Everybody's kind of got their own agenda. You've got the cosplayers, you've got the media, you've got, you know, the, the community

[00:20:01] folks, you've got the cosplay folks, you've got, you know, just people just doing all kinds of stuff. It, it, it, there's just a lot of lines of communication and activity and it, it, it is, it is overwhelming. Just first off, it is overwhelming. I think even for us seasoned BlizzCon goers, you had a travel companion, I believe, Jen. Yeah. Jen box three 60.

[00:20:30] She was, she was absolutely amazing. She's like my oldest friend. She's like a sister to me. And, um, she was, she's been like a huge, she was a huge help through the whole fucking thing. So huge shout out to Jen. It was awesome. Yeah. Big shout out to her. It was, it was really awesome to meet her and she was, she was super kind and sweet. And, uh, yeah, I feel like I have a pretty good travel partner, uh, in a homie Rommel. And I think, I think you have your own version of that.

[00:21:00] And, you know, it, it really does make the experience when you have somebody that you can travel with and experience these things with and see these things. And, you know, I, I know I can be a handful of times. And so he puts up with my shit when I'm asking just name questions about whatever. And just the way that he's able to kind of keep me focused or centered. I always appreciate that when all of this stuff is going on. Uh, so yeah, so we get there, you get there Thursday week, uh, we get there Friday.

[00:21:28] And of course we got to do the big check-in and if you didn't see it right, the big giveaway right away, this, this torn Marine, right? Cause we can't call them space Marines, but we got the, we got the, the Terran torn Marine for the tabletop Starcraft game. And if there was, uh, any bigger indicator that Starcraft was on the docket, I don't know what it was cause they were just giving away Starcraft stuff.

[00:21:54] Uh, on the official art, you also see that they did have a, you know, Marine on there, but we got, we got this fancy, uh, lunchbox. If you didn't see this thing and in this fancy lunchbox, we got this nice thermos, right? We got the thermos, it's good. You know, get this thing, you know, the next chapter. And came with this lovely bag. Hopefully I don't fuck up my setup here while I'm trying to unravel this.

[00:22:20] Oh, because you know, out here we got to have the, you know, we got to have the, the bag. We got to have the reusable bag. We're all about reasonable bags out here. Uh, so we got to have that. We got, uh, we got, uh, the dark moon fair key chain. We got a blizzard con pin. Look at that bad boy. And then, uh, this lovely, uh, patch, this blizzcon patch. You can put that on all of your supplies and a lanyard. In case you needed a lanyard. Nice blizzcon lanyard.

[00:22:50] So that was, that was your giveaway. Uh, if you showed up and when you checked in, that's what they gave you a handful of. And maybe I can reclose this thing, uh, at some point here. Um, but for us, Jez, that was not the end of the pre blizzcon activity because I had thought that you had told me that you weren't going to make it to the fancy mixer or you weren't invited or something.

[00:23:17] So here I am, the homie Romo and I, cause he was my plus one. We go to this place. It's down the road. It was this fancy ass train station that's down the road from when the convention was held. I wasn't sure how vocal we were supposed to be about this thing, how open we were supposed to be about this thing. Cause you couldn't get it unless you had the invite. So even if you made your way over there, like they, they just wouldn't let you into the, even the driveway, the parking lot of the thing. But there was this mixer.

[00:23:44] They called it the night before the mixer and they invited, I swear to God, every content creator, they probably could even remotely find cause this place was packed and they did eventually say we could bring some plus ones, which was, which was nice. Uh, but they had this, this, this huge setup there with, uh, in and out food truck, you know, in and out, you know, big Southern California thing. Uh, they had a bunch of mocktails cause probably don't want to be drinking alcohol blizzard

[00:24:12] events anymore after everything that's happened. Uh, that's my, that's my ride segment. There was no alcohol anywhere. Like what the hell? That was all at the hotels. Um, yeah, they, they, I think even the employees and some of the other folks are feeling like the pendulum might've swung a little too far on that one, but I, I get why. Uh, but they had a tarot, uh, tarot reading. I did get, I did get a tarot reading.

[00:24:42] I had to bribe my way in, but somebody did get me in, uh, at the very end. There were a bunch of photo opportunities and whatnot. Um, but we get there, the homie wrong when I get there and we're kind of milling around and we see people, we see, uh, you know, all the usual content creators. You probably expect that made it there. Uh, did see Taliesin and Evitel and Taliesin is in fact like six, four. Uh, he is very tall. You would never know that looking at these YouTube videos. Uh, but he, he is in fact a very tall person.

[00:25:09] And those two are like, they're like the King and Queen of Blizzcon because they were always surrounded. There were always a million people trying to get their attention. And they're also very practiced at like not catching eye contact and trying to get out of places. So don't get stuck. Uh, it was kind of, it was, it was kind of a masterclass of crowd negotiation. I really appreciated what they were up to. Didn't meet them myself. I never got close enough, I guess, over there in the sphere. Uh, Mr. GM, we saw our buddy, Mr. GM there and, uh, has an opportunity to speak with

[00:25:39] him. Uh, Corey Misseldine, uh, whole friend of the show. So I got to figure out how to get on here. Uh, one of these days, a bunch of folks out there, but then lo and behold, who do I see across the room? But the man himself, Jez Corden. And so me and my little mocktail, I had to run over there and, uh, and I swarmed you and I apologize. I know it was probably a little abrupt and you didn't expect somebody to come over and just hug you out of the blue.

[00:26:07] I was feeling so rough at this point, mate. So rough. You seemed a little jet lagged at the least. And I was shell shocked. Like it was, it was weird. It was, it was a lot going on. Uh, but there we were that there we are. We're inside the joint. It was, it was pretty warm outside. It was nice and cool inside. You know, if you found a place to stand, uh, there wasn't really a whole lot of sitting.

[00:26:34] There's never anywhere to sit in any of these places, the convention, this joint, there's like never anywhere that we could just, you know, get off our feet. Uh, but there we were, uh, at this thing, I finally found you. So it was, it was, it was great that we were able to, you know, catch up, uh, there, but that was, that was kind of the, the big night before events where a lot of the social people were and content creator people were, and I think everybody was having a good time.

[00:27:02] And then that closed down at about nine. I know S fan had an event that had three or four times the capacity. I was able to chat with him a little bit over the weekend when I bumped into him and he said it went fine. It just went way over capacity and they'd never done anything like that before. So I didn't get over there. We didn't get over there. So hopefully folks had a good time over there at the Marriott when that event was happening, but I missed it. Uh, we just went back to bounced over the Hilton and you know, Hilton and Marriott, they're right across from each other.

[00:27:32] And that's pretty much where, uh, people were hanging out, but we had an early morning. We had an early morning jazz because the, the media call, they told you six 40. They told me seven, but be that as it may, what we were told was that the doors would open to the convention center at seven. And if we wanted to get seats in the main hall that we had to be there no later than seven 30, because at seven 30, they were going to start taking people down to their seats.

[00:28:01] So we got there. You and I found each other. Um, Jen was with you. I saw some of the other, uh, European contingent there. So we were, we were hanging out there and going in and actually I should go back here and we got let in. Finally, I think it was around seven and we got put up. This is up on the third floor where we were just kind of contained on the third floor. There's nowhere, there's nowhere to sit. They had water, you know, and I gotta be very careful.

[00:28:30] I'm trying not to complain about this too much. And this is why I didn't make this any rage segment because I want to be very clear, unequivocally clear. I am so fucking grateful that I got swept into the media, you know, bucket at the last minute. I am, I am so eternally grateful and I got to see, do a lot of cool stuff, um, because of that, um, that being said, it was kind of funny that we got brought up there and held hostage for like an hour.

[00:29:00] There was no coffee. There was no tea. I know you were looking, we were looking for tea for you. There's nothing to eat, right? Like we'd all gotten up to get there early. Cause they told us to get there early. And we were just kind of like cattle, just kind of being hemmed into this joint. Wasn't seven 30 getting past eight o'clock. And then finally they took us down to the main floor and we, uh, we, we did get our seats and, uh, you were, you were my seatmate.

[00:29:29] You held my hand, uh, through most of this. Um, but there we were down on the floor. We got to get in, but Jez, we were there like several hours early and we were in our seats several hours early and they wouldn't let us leave. So they wouldn't let you leave the hall. They wouldn't let you go back out into the main area. Once the concessions opened, there was a bathroom thankfully.

[00:29:54] Um, but we were just kind of stuck for two, two and a half hours before the thing even started. And I know it started thinking, okay, well we're here for a few hours and then the thing's going to start. And then the opening ceremony goes for a while. Then there's probably going to be panels that we want to see. So conceivably we could be stuck here for a long time. And thankfully, uh, a few blizzard staff, I think kind of started to catch on.

[00:30:24] I talked to one person when I tried to leave the hall, I tried to go to hall. What was it? The hall C where the warcraft stuff wasn't. So I started walking through and I had security and a PR person like, no, no, no, no, no. The media has to stay. Media can't leave. You got to stay back here. I'm like, Oh no. And I started talking to the PR person. The PR person was like, yeah, I think we learned some lessons about maybe we don't need to do it this early. Or if we do, we need to have some stuff or whatever.

[00:30:49] Um, so I again have to shout out, uh, Varia, the, uh, the CM from the EU who was like, seriously, I put this on Twitter. She's like my guardian fucking angel when it comes to these opening ceremonies. She brought me some water. Your folks, I think they might've been Microsoft or Xbox folks. If somebody showed up and brought you snacks and water and I, I got a water out of it too. Uh, but they started kind of filtering around and dropping stuff, you know, dropping supplies off to people. Um, but it was a little uncomfortable.

[00:31:18] I will say, I don't, I don't know. Maybe you were still in a daze and it didn't matter. But, uh, did you, did you, you, you seemed to fare okay. I have, I've experienced much, much worse at these kinds of things. Yeah. I was, um, the logistics involved organizing, like all these kinds of things is just crazy. And to be honest, that was the biggest, that was the biggest press pool I've ever been a part of by a mile. It was enormous. Yeah. I've never seen so many press at one event before in my life.

[00:31:49] It was huge. The fact, the fact that there were, that there was any kind of like the fact that there was no kind of disasters is a miracle for me and a miracle in itself. Cause I've been at events that were much, much smaller and much more poorly organized. So, um, uh, and I will say this, like in the wake of games calm this year, which had all these crazy security issues and stuff, I kind of feel like they were being extra careful

[00:32:15] and extra strict about how people moved around because games come still getting called out for people shit getting stolen, developers having their dev kits stolen and all kinds of stuff. Cause the security there was so underfunded and lackadaisical. And that's been a problem for years at games come. So I think blizzard was just very like, we're not going to, we're not going to catch any of that shit. Yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty smooth. Otherwise, like, you know, it would, the, the timing might've been a little wonky, uh,

[00:32:44] but they did come in and they started dropping off stuff and it was good. And, um, you know, we'll go through, you know, we kind of split up the announcements that we're going to do today. We're going to focus on kind of our blizzcon experience and, uh, the big, uh, warcraft forever stuff. That'll be this episode, this part one and part two is going to be kind of everything else. Um, so we'll go through all the, the, the, the main beats, uh, kind of as we go, but just for the opening ceremony.

[00:33:12] And we know already no spoiler here, but like retail warcraft, right? We didn't get a whole lot, but like overall, just kind of thinking about the experience. I know sitting next to you, I just say it now. I probably told you this, uh, earlier, but I think, you know, for the rest of you listening, it was, it was awesome to see his jazz jazz jazz is a cool customer.

[00:33:36] I think a lot of the times, but it was one of my life's blizzcon highlights sitting next to him. And like the excitement, just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And like, as the next announcement came out, like, Oh my God, you know, just like your reaction to stuff. It made my heart so full because, you know, I knowing this is your first and like, this is, there's like a lot that did get announced, even if it wasn't necessarily for retail, there's a whole bunch of cool shit happening. And it's some stuff that I know you really cared about.

[00:34:06] So for you kind of reflecting back and thinking about that, that opening ceremony experience, what did you think? I mean, it was, it was just, it was again, it was just like a blur and a daze. It's like, um, I spoke to Jen and she felt the same way. And like afterwards she went and watched the opening ceremony again on YouTube. Cause it was just like, it was, it was really hard to take it all in just because it was

[00:34:33] almost like being at a music festival or something like that. Cause the, it was the energy from the, you're almost like feeling the energy from the crowd more than listening to the announcements themselves. Yeah. Um, I've never experienced anything like it. Um, you know, cause there's just so many different communities there. You know, you've got the Hearthstone community, which, you know, is, is still significantly big.

[00:34:58] And then like, um, fans of classic Blizzard games were serviced pretty well with Warcraft 3 and Heroes of the Storm. Mm-hmm. And then like, obviously the big heavy hitters, Diablo, Starcraft and, you know, Warcraft itself. And the crowd reactions were just, you know, it was a special moment, man. Yeah. It's a special moment. Like the, for me, that's like more, more so than the, the game announcements, which were pretty exciting in of, in of themselves.

[00:35:27] But being so like, being immersed in the community and feeling that energy, I think was, um, that was, that was just incredible for me. You know, I think, I think one thing I've tried to hold onto, to my detriment or my reputation as well, is the fact that I'm a gamer, you know? And like, um, I just want to have, I want to maintain and have a passion for games because it's frankly, I don't have a lot of else, you know?

[00:35:54] Whereas like a lot of journalists, they try to detach, I think they're trying to detach themselves from that passion and sort of look at it for a very analytical lens. And I try to do both. I'm like, I'm going to put my analytical hat on here and I'm going to keep my, you know, nostalgic childhood happiness hat on as well. I'm not going to give, I'm not going to give that shit away for anyone. I don't give a fuck. I will not give that up. I will not give up the passion I have for this industry and gaming just because it's uncool for a journalist to do so. I couldn't care less.

[00:36:25] So to just sort of just sit there as a fan and just, you know, cause one, you've mentioned the mixer the day before and we weren't going to go to that. And I was told it was because originally some press were going to be pre-briefed before BlizzCon about what the announcements were. And that pre-brief was going to go on at the same time as a mixer, but they moved the pre-brief to earlier in the day so that more, more of us could go to the mixer. Right. Okay.

[00:36:55] Um, so I kind of like, I was very, very lucky and grateful that allowed some of us to do that because it allowed me to sit there and enjoy BlizzCon, the opening ceremony as a fan because I'd written all the content the day before, um, and just put it in the system to be, to go live schedule. So, um, yeah, I was there purely as a fan for that event.

[00:37:19] And it, it, it reminds me that like, and a lot of these events like Xbox fan fest or like games com, like for the last 13 years I've been doing this. I haven't been able to just enjoy it as a fan. So being able to like enjoy BlizzCon as a fan is something that I'd be eternally grateful for, for, for, you know, to, to be able to have the opportunity. It was fantastic. Yeah. Well, and now I hope you understand why when you said that you were thinking about staying

[00:37:48] upstairs and live blogging the thing, I was at, there's no way, absolutely no way I was going to allow that. Like Jen and I were going to take an arm a piece and we were going to drag you down there because it, it's true. And now you've seen it yourself, right? That is like, there is, there is an energy at BlizzCon that is unlike anything I could describe elsewhere.

[00:38:12] Like I have no other experience to gauge it against because it's, it's the combination of, you know, the, the, the publishing house itself, right? And all the stuff that they have and all the products that we care about, but it's, it's, you know, all of the, the, the, the displays in the halls and the music is playing and people are just vibing and having a good time. And there's things that you care about and are getting excited about.

[00:38:39] And there's all these little corners of fandoms that are having their moments. And it just, it just creates this, this, this stew. There's just this BlizzCon cauldron of goodness that's happening. And I, I have nothing else to compare it to. And so I, I was, I was, I'm, I'm so grateful that I got to sit next to you and watch kind of you go through that because it's just, it's such a cool fucking thing, uh, to see.

[00:39:04] And then, you know, obviously got the media experience and you got it full on because I know you got to interview. Now, did you get individual interviews where you group interviews? Was it both? Remind me. I was very, very lucky. I had, I had a bunch of individual interviews. Um, uh, I interviewed, and I've still got some of them to come out. I interviewed the Heroes of Storm team. I'm going to put that out next week. All right.

[00:39:27] Um, Warcraft three team and also the Warcraft forever team and, uh, Ian himself on just general Warcraft. So, um, felt extremely lucky to have all that stuff on deck. Um, but it was just, it was, their passion was so infectious. Like everyone, but I couldn't, I'm not a Hearthstone player, but I love their presentation. Those devs, the Hearthstone devs are so funny. Mm-hmm. Um, they are pretty good. Yeah.

[00:39:57] I, I installed, I installed Hearthstone again, just purely out of appreciation for their presentation. You know, I suck at it so bad. Like I'm too, I'm too dumb to play Hearthstone. It's like, like it's, I'm, I have so much respect for people who play like strategy games or tactical games like at that competitively. Mm-hmm. Cause it's like, it's so much stuff you have to learn. Like, or even just stuff like chess or even checkers.

[00:40:24] Like I just suck at these kinds of games unless I'm playing the computer on easy. So, um, but Hearthstone Battlegrounds is like, it, it's, I don't know if you played it, Hearthstone Battlegrounds, but it's like, it's like the easy version. I think it's like that. They, they throw cards at you and it's like, it's kind of like luck based. Like, do you, do you get a good card? And you know, there's a little, there's a little bit of skill involved, but like less, less

[00:40:49] so I think like I've won a few Hearthstone, um, Battleground matches, which suggests that there is a lot of luck involved, I think. But, um, the whole thing was just fantastic.

[00:41:32] Yeah. They had these tables and booths and Mike set up and tape, you know, just like all these, uh, makeshift cubicle rooms and different things. Like they, they had this very elaborate thing going on up there and all the PR people I spoke to, uh, were very nice. And I am not joking. When I say to any of you listening, every single person that I talked to had the nicest things to say about Jez.

[00:42:01] Everybody knew him. Everybody had seen him or, you know, wanted to see him come through. Like he really, you really are like the fucking King, man. Like, I know you think I'm joking when I was saying that while we were there, but it is fucking true, dude. Because everybody has to be like, Oh yeah, Jez, they don't know who fuck I am. But right. Because it's, you know, it's your job, right? You're a journalist. They should know who you are. They're the PR people. So, uh, but it also really helped because, and I'll, uh, I'll do my best to go back on

[00:42:30] the YouTube because our audio wasn't, we had one shot. Listen, we have one shot to get the thing done. We did. We did get to abscond with one of their little makeshift cubicle rooms. Um, they're on the media, uh, village landscape that they had there. And Jez was able to secure that for us. And so we did get a 30 minute thing that we just one shot out and I didn't get to check levels. We didn't get to check audio levels. The audio is not quite great. So I'll, I'll see if I can go back and fix it and re-upload it.

[00:42:59] So that way it's easier to hear. Um, cause I think our mic levels were a little bit off. Um, but they did let us in and we got to get some quick hits out there and I've seen a couple of people look at it. So that's good. Um, but it was all very professional and they're all very kind and treated as well. And there was lots of good food, uh, which I appreciate. So the homie Ramo and I were scamming sandwiches and going down. And watching the Starcraft tournaments and, you know, doing that kind of thing. So that was nice.

[00:43:28] Um, but I, I do hope that the next time that they do this, which by all accounts, I mean, it does sound like it's going to be another two or three years that we get another one. Um, I do hope that they let more content creators in because I really did not see a lot of people that I recognized from like our community, tons of press, lots of foreign press. Clearly, you know, whoever the PR agency that was in charge of this had a big invite list and they, it seems like they got a lot of folks.

[00:43:56] Um, but the, the content creation side of things very clearly seemed to be a bit of a split between what had happened in the past and maybe what they wanted to happen now. And I, I feel like the content creation side got shortchanged a bit. So hopefully next time more people will get let in.

[00:44:22] Um, obviously I'd like to get let in again, but I, I do think that there are some people, um, like I'll say for instance, uh, um, our boys over at the starting zone, uh, Jason and Spencer. Like if I got in, they should definitely be getting in because their audience dwarfs us and it's not even close. So, you know, it just, I, I don't know why. And I'm again, I am so grateful that we got included in that. I got included in that.

[00:44:51] Um, and, and hopefully next time the, the, our, our side of the tent will be a little bit bigger. Um, but the media experience was great. Um, that was super fun, uh, getting to meet folks that, you know, haven't really had a chance to come across, uh, very often. And then, you know, just walk in the halls and seeing, uh, you know, what we could, uh, was there anything jazz in particular that you saw while you were walking through the halls, whether it was the Warcraft stuff or otherwise that you were particularly impressed by?

[00:45:18] The queues, the queues were impressive. Oh yeah, were they ever? Oh God. Yeah. I, I didn't really, I didn't really get to see any of the stuff cause I'm just like, I'm, I'm old and my back hurts and I just don't queue anymore. I don't do queuing. I remember the last time I queued was for, before I had press access, I went to Gamescom and like, I don't know, God, what year it would have been.

[00:45:44] And it was a year before, um, Mega Solid 5, the Phantom Pain launched. And, um, I queued for like six hours to play that game for 15 minutes. Oh God. For an article. And I was just like, I am never doing that again. I don't care. I don't care. I'm not doing that again. It was miserable. Good for burning calories, but my God, I was, I'm not healthy. I wasn't, I'm not healthy.

[00:46:12] So like, you know, doing that shit for a million hours. Oh man, can't do it. But, um, there was so, there was lots of cool activities and fun little things. There was a tattoo booth. A lot of people get tattoos, but again, I think was there. Yeah. To be there very early to get, to get an appointment. Um, there was a lot of crafty kind of things, which I thought was cool. And lots of like random activities. I didn't really do any of them, but, um, I took a lot of photographs.

[00:46:40] The thing that I appreciate the most was, um, they had like a Diablo, like art, uh, section. And there was, um, there was a triptych there, which it was like a, I don't know if you know art at all, but there was like, it was clearly like a Diablo take on Hieronymus Bosch kind of, uh, a painting and it was, it was absolutely amazing. So it was really cool to see in BlizzCon, like showcase all aspects of the fandom, like

[00:47:10] cosplayers, artists, um, you know, and the rest of it. It was, uh, it was just so cool to be immersed in all that stuff, man. Um, but I did spend most of the time in the media area because at least it was like a little bit quiet, um, I, I, too much noise and you know, make it freak out, man. There was so many people in such a small place, but he really had that games com energy. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.

[00:47:40] It really had that games com energy, you know, cause games comes with like a hundred thousand people, but it's like the entire game industry. This is just for like one publisher. And that many people show up for this one publisher is crazy, you know, um, like Blizzard had like a huge, last time I went to games com was a couple of years ago and Blizzard had a huge, huge presence there as well. Like they had like a whole, whole to themselves basically.

[00:48:08] I think they had like, they had like this huge hall and then Genshin Impact had like this little tiny little corner of the room or something. Um, but nah, it's fantastic, man. It was just cool as hell. Yeah. They, I, if you ever get the chance to go, I, I highly suggest people do what they can to, to make it at least one time because it's an experience that I don't think most people would regret. Not everybody has a great experience.

[00:48:37] I want to be upfront about that as well. I think the thing that you pointed to, the lines are fucking brutal for certain things. If you have any hope of wanting to do anything related to the dark moon fair, your ass is getting up at four or five o'clock in the morning and getting in line, not to go see the opening ceremony or when the doors open or anything. And so you can haul ass over to wherever that thing is. So you can participate in whatever's going on over there. The lines were just outrageous. I have no idea what it looks like.

[00:49:08] I don't know. You wouldn't know what was going on in there because we didn't bother. It wasn't worth it. I think the only thing we really stood in line for was to get into a housing panel just because we wanted to see that. And we were right there and the timing was right. Um, and they had this little legend stage off in a corner somewhere, which was not a great setup for that either. Um, I think the ADA stuff was better this year. Uh, they had, uh, I know that I saw folks signing at the panels. There were, uh, there was captioning, uh, at the panel.

[00:49:36] So it seems like some of that stuff there, they are getting better about. Um, but I do hear that a lot where people get overwhelmed just by the noise and the people and it is a fucking lot. Uh, there's, there's no doubt about that, but, uh, two very full days. And, and of course getting to meet people to me, that is just the best out of all of it is obviously you and I got to meet for the first time in person and we got to hang

[00:50:04] out a bit and we went out to dinner with you and your homies on, uh, I guess it would have been Sunday night and, you know, got to, got to hang out with it. Getting to watch football, Jez, getting to watch American football with you in like a kind of like a, you know, just like as a regular American, you know, fair restaurant. That's the top five experience for me. Uh, you know, just hanging out with you and Jen and the rest of the crew. That was super fun.

[00:50:31] Um, I got to hang out with my D and D group Saturday night and seeing, you know, Allie and Jen and Lance and all our friends over there meeting, you know, folks from the community, other podcasters, um, that, uh, that I've known of, but you know, putting a face to a name and having a drink over the Hilton or whatever it was, or even guildies that I've never met because, you know, I'm kind of relatively new in the guild that I'm in. So getting to see some of them and that to me, that's the stuff I walk away with, with

[00:51:00] the best memories is just sharing a laugh and sharing a drink or hanging out or whatever. I got a halfway decent picture with Ian finally at the, at the Marriott, uh, when he was getting swarmed and I managed to get in there. And so after, after three blizz cons, I finally got a half decent picture with him and I probably should have put it up here. I'll put it up here sometime when it's relevant or something. And, uh, and of course when I, when I bumped into him and I was like, Hey, how's it going? He's like, Oh yeah, I saw jazz early.

[00:51:29] Like it's not, I got something for that later too. Uh, but you, you, you are a known entity, my friend, and everybody really enjoys your presence. So if, uh, if you ever had any questions about that, please don't, cause it, it, you are well received and, and, and people love having you around and, uh, yeah, it just, that was, that's just the best. That's the best part is yeah, it gets noisy and kind of crazy sometimes, but you know, getting to see folks that you rarely get a chance to see in person because we're off in this digital

[00:51:59] space somewhere. And to me, that is, that's the best overall. Yeah. Everyone's super nice and super kind. And like, I feel incredibly lucky, you know, to still get to do this. And I think a lot about when it's all going to end, you know, but like now that I've done BlizzCon, it's like I've done everything that I wanted to do in this career, in this industry. So everything here for me is a bonus quite far as I'm concerned.

[00:52:25] I've still, I've still got a wrangle Chris Metzen somehow, some way. That's, that's the, that's the mountaintop. That's, that's the thing we got to get, which we, and we didn't even see him. You know, he wasn't, he was there in voice for one video that I saw. And might as well just switch gears to that after, after the, the one big discussion point that we'll have for today, other than just cool ass experiences at BlizzCon and big,

[00:52:55] big lines and seeing all this stuff. But after much question about what it was going to be, and we saw the name Camelot being thrown around and what's classic plus and this and that, we had the big presentation by Holly who looked like a million bucks. Like I know everybody at this point has probably seen her in that, in that, uh, that outfit, if you even call it that, um, you know, in the, in the attire that she was in, it was just unbelievable. She looked just amazing. You know, they come out here and they, and they teased it.

[00:53:25] Okay. We're going to plus it up and this and that. And we know there's a Camelot thing and whatever it is and classic plus and lo and behold, at first it kind of sounded like a threat and I was like, Oh, what world of Warcraft forever. They're going to keep us forever. Yes. You know, that was the name that they came up with. And it was funny because even, even on the apparel, if you buy it, it even says Camelot on the, the, the stuff here.

[00:53:52] So even for this wow forever shirt that I'm wearing, it even says cam like they really didn't want this name getting out. Um, but here we have world of Warcraft forever. Uh, it is essentially a version and correct me if I'm wrong here, but essentially it is a version of world of Warcraft that is set at the beginning. It's, it's after the events of Warcraft three.

[00:54:14] It is set at the, that very early initial point of when world of Warcraft takes place. And rather than the classic, classic experience where it's everything exactly as you remember it from 2004, you know, the graphics are the same, the play styles, the same, the quests, the NPC, everything's the same.

[00:54:40] This is what they're calling a sort of a re-imagined Azeroth where it is very, very similar to that initial experience, but they've, they've plussed it up. Right. So the graphics are a little bit better. The environment's a little bit better. They've added some new zones. They've added a new race, which I'm going to ask you about. Uh, they're opening up race class combinations. Forsaken Paladin, right.

[00:55:09] Was a big one that they showed in the, in the big, uh, intro cinematic that we saw. They're adding, uh, dungeons and raids and, you know, they're, they're expanding that idea of classic into something that's new, but familiar. And, you know, they show like Mount hydral is going to be a zone. That was something way back when, right. You couldn't get into that zone. It was there on the map and you could be really tricky and find your way in.

[00:55:37] But like, that's going to be a zone. And like Archimald's body is still like up against the tree there. And you can see some of that stuff. Um, they are marrying it to your account. And so, you know, this isn't like a separate thing that you have to buy. It's like everything else. If you got a subscription, you could get into it. They're, they're building some legacy systems into it. So there, there is some like additional progression systems.

[00:56:05] Um, but the beta is happening right now. It comes out November the 4th. So it's right around the corner. Uh, we do, by the way, have a contest running right now out on, uh, on Twitter on X or unshackled theory. All you got to do is like repost, uh, uh, subscribe to the account and then, uh, just tell us what kind of class you want to play. Uh, and we've got a key to give away and I'm giving it away on the, on the 23rd.

[00:56:34] So if you haven't already jumped in, please jump in. Uh, but it is, it is very much, I think what they said to us in the presentation. Now that we've seen a little bit of it is it is that original experience, but enhanced in a way that doesn't tread on the spirit of what people have wanted this whole time in terms of that, I guess, classic plus experience. I've been a kind of an outsider on this.

[00:57:04] I'm not a classic guy. I don't really give a shit about it, but I will say after what I've seen and experienced just a little bit of so far, I get it. I understand. And I think a little bit about what people have been wanting and asking for. Uh, but for you, Jez, you, you are far more knowledgeable and immersed, uh, in this whole

[00:57:27] situation than I am your take on world of Warcraft forever, the announcements and what we have seen so far. Well, one of the big disappointments for me about BlizzCon was the lack of information about retail. Like I'm a retail guy for 20 years. So, you know, it's like I played classic. I've been there. I've done that. I raided hardcore, more hardcore than that up to, um, up to like ice crown citadel.

[00:57:57] I was basically raiding like five days a week, five to seven days a week, but unemployed. Like the, the, I was the Cartman stereotype, like the actual one, you know, if, if we had cockroaches in England, I would have had cockroaches in my bedroom. Right. Uh, thank God we don't, you know, but I was, I was that stereotype, you know, I lived that, I lived that lifestyle, man.

[00:58:21] Um, and, uh, so, but I've always wanted to like move forward with the story. I want to see where it can go, you know? Um, and, uh, when I started announcing classic service and stuff, like I was never interested. A lot of my friends were, and they were like, oh yeah, we can play classic again. And it's just like, I play a classic to death. I don't want to see Thaddeus ever again. I don't want to, I don't want to see Nefarian do a class call or, you know, or twin emperors

[00:58:49] teleporting all over the place and all that kind of shit, you know, like I've been there and done all that. Right. Yeah. So, um, but this is different. And I think this is like, what intrigues me about this is that it's like, it's sort of, um, it improves upon classic, which is what intrigues me about it. Cause a lot of the things that I hate about classic, which is like the lack of class balance, some specs are just fucking useless, you know?

[00:59:17] And it's like, how do you, how do you justify preserving that experience? You know, where like I rolled a pal, I rolled a paladin. Um, uh, I rolled, I was undead warlock first. And then one of my friends at school said, said he wouldn't play the game unless he could be a gnome. He refused to play anything except a gnome. Okay. So because we wanted to play with him, we all, we rolled the lines for a while.

[00:59:43] And I was, I went from being undead warlock, which I wanted to play to be an, to a human paladin for a while. Cause I wanted that kind of Arthur's fantasy, I guess. Sure. And I was like, um, I'm going to be a rep paladin. Rep was fucking useless in classic. Um, so I ended up being a holy paladin for raiding. And then the holy paladin healing, healing rotation was rank four, holy light over and over again. And before that, it like long blessings and stuff.

[01:00:11] I don't know if you know this, but like originally with blessings, like the paladin buffs, they only lasted for three minutes and they didn't bless the whole raid. Right. So before every single fucking boss, you have to click 40 people manually and cast blessing of might, blessing of might, blessing of might, blessing of wisdom, blessing of wisdom, blessing of wisdom. And this is before, this is before they even added blessing of Kings, I think, if I remember correctly. So later on, they added symbol of Kings and then they added like class based blessings,

[01:00:40] which made everything easier. But so like a lot of those like foibles, which did improve in classic over time. Um, I don't want to go back to anything like that. I don't want to go back to unbalanced classes or like just ridiculous micromanagement of like three minute buffs and all that kind of shit. Yeah. So like seeing that they've brought in some of the quality of life improvements that don't detract from what the feel of classic is, but do improve upon the experience. It's like, no, there's going to be class balance.

[01:01:09] Paladins actually have an attack in wow forever, like Holy Strike or whatever it's called. Um, cause the Paladins didn't have an attack. They only had seal of command and then judgment, judgment of command, you know, and they, they added Crusader Strike into, um, in Burning Crusade. I think they gots Crusader Strike. So they've given, they're given Paladins actual attacks and prop Paladins are going to

[01:01:35] actually have a taunt because prop Paladins couldn't really tank raids because they didn't have a taunt. They couldn't do the taunt swapping stuff. So, um, so they've, they've fixed a lot of that stuff. That makes me intrigued about it because now I won't feel like I've got to, I've got to follow a meta. I can actually play a class I want to play. And also like they've remixed it. So it's not, it's not the same continuity. There's going to be new storylines. There's going to be new quests, like even messing around with Interiors Fall Glades.

[01:02:06] Um, there was tons of new quests, which added like new lore. Um, Bandarion from the new Warcraft three expansion has lore in wow forever, which is really interesting. Makes me wonder like, are they going to bring some of that into retail? Like everything about it's just intriguing. And there's just like these, it's that, it's that nostalgic experience, but then sprinkled in like spice or icing on a cake. Like there's all these little morsels of like little improvements, like the campfire system,

[01:02:35] the new lighting and fog system. Oh my God. So it, it feels new, you know, it reminds me of cataclysm, you know, and I don't cataclysm. I feel like cataclysm got a lot of hate out of the gates because there's a try to write blizzard tried to pull wow back to classic in cataclysm.

[01:03:01] And I don't know if, if, if people remember this, but like coming out of the gate in cataclysm, people have been farming like stone core and, and all the, the wrath dungeons. Like they were, they were nothing. Oh yeah. They run through. Blasted through them until then. You'd AOE the whole dungeon, right? Yeah. You just run through the dungeon, AOE and you wouldn't do any tactics. You wouldn't do nothing. So people got used to that, that easiness. And blizzard was like, this isn't healthy for the game. So in cataclysm, they ran, they tried to pull it back to the classic.

[01:03:31] I remember this made everything really hard again. And my dungeon hearing card, like I remember like the first times trying to do scholar man's or low black rock spiral or some of these like really tough dungeons or Grim Batal. Yeah. I want to throw myself out. Oh yeah. The first time doing Grim Batal, it felt like, oh my God, this is hard. It's doing like LBRS was back in the day, like, or UBRS before you had gear and stuff like that. It was like, and I loved it.

[01:03:58] I was like, this is what, wow, it was supposed to feel like, but the community hated it because they'd gotten used to the convenience and the ease. And I felt like, oh, I'm a boomer now because everyone, everyone, all the new kids who came in for wrath, they were like, they wanted it all easy and they had the LFG system and all this kind of shit. So I really think cataclysm was where this schism initially happened where, where, wow, had to be this like easy and accessible kind of thing.

[01:04:23] And while they were trying to rework all that stuff, like cataclysm sort of had all these major issues with its end game because they were trying to rework so much of the other stuff and rebalance everything. So we ended up with these long patch cycles where nothing happened. And then the death wing raid was like, it was so lame. It was just like dragon blight. And then like death wing, you know, it was just like, it felt, it felt lazy.

[01:04:51] You know, it didn't feel like, it didn't feel like epic, like ice crown citadel or all the idea done. And, and, uh, some of this stuff. So cataclysm like really disrupted the game. And I think that's where the schism between classic and the new school kind of started to happen. And cataclysm really started the decline of wow. Like wow has never, never reached wrath's heights because I do think wrath damaged the health of the game. And they brought some of it back over time by adding the difficulty in the challenge with

[01:05:20] mythic plus and stuff like that. And legion really started, they found a way to add the challenge without taking away the easy stuff and started trying to appeal to different multiple fan bases. Right. And I think for what it's worth, I think they do a decent job of that. And my interview with Eon, like we talked a little bit about that and how like they said in the last time, they want to add the heroic world tier to the whole game, which was in legion remix.

[01:05:46] So like people who do want to, a harder outdoor leveling experience like wow forever. Hopefully we'll get it in last time with this heroic world tier. But you know, I think like with wow forever, you can really feel, um, how much of a higher quality video game experience it is in the open world, right from the first quest in tears of full glades. It's a better experience.

[01:06:16] Oh, just all up. Right. Um, like I was doing my fucking pray nightmare, pray earlier. And it's just like, you jump on a mount, you fly everywhere. And it's just like, you ignore the quests and you ignore the mobs. You ignore the art they've done, the design because you humans are hardwired for efficiency. Right. True. True. And, um, and people bitch and complain when blizzard takes that away. Like I remember when they took away flying mounts and you had to get the explorer achievement. Yeah.

[01:06:46] People bitched and moaned. I'm like, Oh, we want flying from, from day one. It's like, you think you want it, but you don't. And that's why wow forever is so popular is because it, it's sort of like, it justifies itself by being like, yeah, we're taking that away because that's the old school experience. But like, I think all that kind of over convenience that we have in retail has ruined the game. Like it's, it's genuinely ruined the game.

[01:07:12] Like the, the new player experience in where in modern is fucking terrible. It's so bad. It is awful. That Patrick Island of patronization. What is it called? I don't know. Exiles reach or whatever. Exiles reach is the worst video game experience in the entire industry. It is so dumb and patronizing and treats the, treats the player like a child.

[01:07:41] And world of warcraft forever. It doesn't do that. It throws you into the deep end and you have to communicate with other people to learn the game. I was playing with two friends yesterday, one of which has never played wow. And the other one hasn't played wow for like 15 years. And you know, well, I had to explain to them how to use WASD and don't click your skills, use your keybinds, like all this kind of stuff. Like don't get it. You build good habits now, because if you start clicking now, you'll end up clicking through your whole career until, you know, and it's harder to learn.

[01:08:12] Yeah. Yeah. So try to teach some good habits and that's, it builds a social connection, you know, whereas like you're getting the tutorial on the screen, you, you're not going to connect with the game, you know? And I think like, um, so I suppose like a high level, one thing I'm hoping they'll take away from wow forever is the sort of justification that they can do some of the wow forever kind of stuff in retail.

[01:08:40] I'm afraid that wow forever is going to detract from the budget for wow retail, because I think there's a, there's a genuine risk that wow forever will become the default version of wow. And it's because blizzard has been afraid of its fan base and have been afraid to implement the sort of friction that you need to make a game feel engaging and immersive because a noisy portion of the player base just wants everything super easy and they, they think

[01:09:09] they want it easy, but you know, they quit, you know, and the people who quit and play casually, like they ain't, they ain't the people you want to be catering for. You want to be catering for the people who stick around. And I think like wow forever will hopefully inform them of ways to make wow retail better. But yeah, um, but yeah, I, I really enjoyed what I played of it so far.

[01:09:35] Like it's got enough freshness and newness that I felt like, you know, I've done Tiers for Glades, like vanilla Tiers for Glades, like a million times. And it really felt like, oh, this reminds me of playing Cataclysm when they refreshed all of this stuff and it all felt new, but also nostalgic at the same time. Yeah. And I wish they do that again for retail. I wish they give us a Cataclysm style refresh with low stakes.

[01:09:59] Don't put any heroes, don't put Sylvanas there or like maybe like Sylvanas is, you know, oh, you know, well, it won't be Sylvanas, but whoever's leading the Forsaken or whatever at the time, like put that dude from Warcraft 3 in it, Garrick, like put him as leader in the Odyssey, but like low stakes stuff, like refresh all of that thing. Like part of me is wondering, like, does Blizzard actually get it? Because one thing that I've seen Blizzard criticized for is the new Skyborne elves.

[01:10:29] And this is a slight spoiler for anyone who wants to play Skyborne. So just pull mute for like 30 seconds. Yeah. Jess's new favorite elf race. I fucking hate elves, man. I hate elves, but, um, but the point of this is like people are like, does Blizzard actually really, truly get the tone of classic? Because the, the, the, the ultimate like final quest for the Skyborne starting area, you're

[01:10:55] fighting like Alakir's Lieutenant to defend your entire race to stop them from being destroyed. And it's like, that isn't the stakes that classic had. Too big. It was like, yeah, it was too big. It was like the, the, the final quest in like Tyrion's Four Glades is like, you just go and kill some random Scarlet dude in a tower, I think, or something like that.

[01:11:20] Or you, you know, and it's, and then they're like, okay, now go to the forest and kill some more Scarlet, you know, it's like, and you don't really get to those high stakes until you get to a dungeon and you fight like an Arugel or, you know, something like that. Right. Um, so I think I'm worried that like Blizzard has still got this video game, this sort of gamer, modern game design mindset where it's like the player needs to feel like a big hero

[01:11:47] and needs to feel like a super strong boy because he doesn't in real life. You know, that's like, that's, that's not one. I don't think that's what people want to feel. I think people are fed up with that. I don't want to feel like I've got responsibilities. I want to feel like I'm a nobody. Let me feel like a nobody. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to feel like all these, all these weights and pressures on me. I just want to sneak around the back while the heroes are dealing with the monster and pick up some loot, you know?

[01:12:14] No, I, I a hundred percent understand that because that's how I felt in the media when I'm like, I'm a nobody, but I'm up here, but nobody cares. I mean, I don't have any responsibilities up here. I don't have to do anything. So no, I get that. And it, and it does, that'd be a great tagline. The world of Warcraft forever. Be a nobody and love it. Like, yeah, that's what I want, man. I want to be a nobody. It gives an opportunity to do that though. Right. And I think you and I both agree.

[01:12:41] And, and by all accounts, this beta is getting hammered on because they keep talking about like the reception of this thing is just bananas. Um, Asmongold, Asmongold's playing well forever and you can see the joy in his face. That won't last. And well, it's, it's just, it's just funny though. Cause like most of the clips you see of Asmongold, like he's angry about something these days, like politics or whatever, like I ain't going to discuss that shit, but the clips have been playing well classic.

[01:13:10] It's a genuine joy in the guy's face. Genuine joy, you know, and like, say what you will about Asmongold. It's, it's a nice thing to see joy on people's faces, man. That's, that's how good it is. Well, you know, what I've seen so far, I, I did. It's funny cause I, I, I do not do alts. I just talked about it as long as I've done this show. I just, I really don't do them and having to do stuff over again and over again.

[01:13:39] I, you know, it comes a certain point. I'm like, I can't remember what you were saying at the top about retail. Like I want to see new stuff. I want to move on. I want to see the story progress, this and that playing wow forever. It was the first time where I started to connect something in my brain from 19 years ago when I first picked up the game. And there was something, there was almost like a smell or a, uh, like a, some sort of latent

[01:14:07] memory that was like locked way in the back of my brain about when I first picked up the game that somehow it was connecting to that. And I can't explain it, but I started to go and I was like, Oh man, like I'm feeling a vibe that I haven't felt in a very long time about being back in Elwin forest and doing this, you know, like I said, low stakes shit and it was good. In fact, I, I think what I've decided I'm going to do is I'm, I'm probably going to stop

[01:14:36] playing the beta because I'm just going to want to keep going and then I'll have to start over again. I'm like, Oh fuck. I just like, I just did this. And so there's a, there's a recency thing. Um, I also have to pick a good name now that we've got to do first and last names. I don't know. I don't know. I got to figure out something. Um, I saw a bunch of people being smart asses out there putting some shit that's definitely going to get banned. So I guess I have to think about that.

[01:15:01] Um, but this whole idea of you get to 60 and then you stay there. Right. And they did even put out, and I wanted to put this up here. Um, they did put out a roadmap, uh, for wow forever. And you can see in the beta, you know, they're going to move on for a little bit, another month or so here. And they'll let you, uh, right now, I think it's up to level 20 and then they're going to do up to level 30.

[01:15:27] Um, we'll have an opportunity to hold on and create characters and secure your name and do all that stuff here. Uh, it looks like at the end of October. Uh, and then it launches November 4th, which I think it's great that that window is so short right. And we've seen it. It's got a bit of polish to it. So it's not entirely surprising, but it's great that they're not making people wait that long. Um, and then they're, they're going to have raids unlocked. They're going to do a hardcore mode, which God bless you. If you're doing that hardcore shit, I, there ain't no fucking way I'm ever touching any of that.

[01:15:56] Um, and then they're going to continue to build on it. And that is the promise of world of Warcraft forever, right? Is that you get to 60 and then there isn't this just endless churn of leveling and catching up and gearing. And then they'll, people will do that. People will find that niche. People will chase that thing. But the goal, right?

[01:16:24] Is we're going to find ways to expand and to change. They, they have said that this is its own pocket thing, which I don't know. Maybe the multiverse thing works out. Maybe it doesn't, but they've talked about maybe making some changes to some things, not mega huge changes, but maybe some things take a slightly different path. Uh, I think the example that was given is, you know, we're not going to make it so Arthas didn't become the Lich King, but maybe there's some other smaller stakes thing that breaks a different way. Something does or doesn't happen.

[01:16:52] Um, gives them an opportunity. What was that Lich called in Rise of Fendon? Uh, fuck. You got me. Rise of Fendon's Lich. Somebody can yell out. Oh man, I'm just looking it up. But like, I always thought like, I always really liked it. That dungeon of Rise of Fendon's. And I was sitting there thinking like, this dude could be like, I don't know. Um, um, um, um, the coal bringer.

[01:17:22] Oh, I'm not. So I'm like, make that guy a ride boss, man. It can be like, it can be the scourge Lieutenant in Kalimdor or some shit. Yeah. So, but that is the kind of, that's exactly the kind of thing that could happen, right? That that is, that is the sort of game plan. No pun intended that they've laid out for us is there'll be things that they can try or do a little bit different.

[01:17:49] But they are clearly going to hold on to certain sight lines where this is what this is. And an example I'll give is I saw this on, I believe it was Reddit where, um, somebody was complaining about tagging. Right. Cause it's, it's single tag. It's not like there's no group tag. You know, that's not, that's not the old way. And somebody was, was complaining about that. And I saw a novel, uh, I think commented.

[01:18:15] And then, uh, the dude who's kind of in charge of this, um, Josh Greenfield. And he had said this, this is a line that we are sticking to because this requires you to work with other people. Like, and I'll say that I've not been the biggest fan of having to group up with people. I'm, I'm a solo guy. I just, I don't like relying on other folks. Maybe it's a Gen X thing. I don't know.

[01:18:39] But I had to group up with somebody to do some stuff and go after some kobolds and then go into the Fargo deep mine and do a thing. Cause there were, there were too many kobolds and the levels were too high and I was getting smoked. I had to group up with other people and we did it and it was easy. And there were five of us and we kicked ass and it was like, Hey, look how great everybody feels now that we made this random group out of whoever. And we did this thing. And I get that. I understand that. That is how you build community.

[01:19:08] That is how you find people, you know, back in the old days when you had to keep track of who the good tanks were and who the good blacksmiths were. And you know, all that stuff on your server. So you could get things done. Like I, I understand it. And I understand that people really dig that. And they're trying to foster that through world of Warcraft forever. But, um, undoubtedly wildly successful out of the gate thus far with the beta.

[01:19:35] Uh, and then we'll see, right. We'll see what kind of influence it has on retail. We'll see what kind of, like you said, is it going to split stuff off from other teams and resources? And is it, is it going to influence things where now we're going to change some things to maybe adapt to it? I almost wonder if this is the proto world of Warcraft.

[01:19:59] I don't want to say two, because we were kind of throwing out the wow too, but I talk about, okay, one day the last Titan ends and then Warcraft goes on to the next, whatever. Is this the proto version of what that is? Because I could very well see them taking this, making changes to it, to adapt it to retail. But like, that's now kind of like your starting experience, right? Like you always talk about this and they keep saying they're going to do something about it, right? Maybe they use this as a template to rejigger that starting experience. And then they add some things.

[01:20:29] So you get up to speed on the story and you learn about who Arthas is and you learn about who Deathwing is and you learn about who's Garrosh is. Like there's ways to kind of incorporate that more naturally than have all these different zones and bang all these things around. And, you know, maybe it's a choice that you get, but I could very well see this somehow being like a, like a, a roadmap even for what retail could become. But at the end of the day, this, this is it.

[01:20:58] This is the big, this is the big hidden thing. This is the big classic plus. This is, this is what they have been hiding as Camelot. And now we know, and we're often running. And, and like I said, we're running our own contest right now out on Twitter. If you want to get yourself a beta key and not only do you get a beta key. So I want to make sure that I say this correctly here because there is, it is the world of Warcraft. It's like the forever collection.

[01:21:26] So there's stuff for retail. There's, there's like some, some pets, uh, for Warcraft, uh, forever. There's some transmog, there's some housing stuff. You also get Warcraft three, uh, forsaken kingdom. And we'll talk about that on the next episode. Uh, the, the new Warcraft three campaign that just got dropped on us as part of all of this. Uh, but you get all of that as part of this, it's like 80 bucks for this fucking thing. And all you got to do is participate in a little Twitter nonsense. I'll take you 30 seconds or less. I promise.

[01:21:56] Uh, so get in there, uh, and check it out. And then, you know, you can, you can party with the rest of us and, you know, have your, your funny names that you can try out and get banned. Uh, when blizzards make us, which I would say, just be careful about what names you do make. Cause it does look like they're banning people's accounts who make like racist or shitty names or whatever else. So just, just be careful about what you're doing. Be cheeky. Don't, don't be, don't be evil about it. So, um, so yeah, there you go. World of Warcraft forever.

[01:22:26] Jez, we're never going to be able to leave. That's just forever. Forever. That's what they got us. Uh, all right. Well, let's see, we're running up on some good time here for this first, uh, first part of this episode and we do have some Q and a, we got so many questions. We even had to split that into, uh, so let's see if I can remember, uh, which one of these buttons is the Q and a button.

[01:22:56] I can never remember this. Like you said, Jeff, it is a week from today. We were still at BlizzCon and it feels like it was a month ago. I mean, time is, time is fucked up. All right. Uh, first question coming from professor rig, uh, also known as Laura Vines out there in the world. Uh, can you tell us about the coolest panel you went to that was not exclusively Warcraft related? Um, Jez, did you even go to any panels?

[01:23:27] I didn't. Um, I had so many meetings and stuff that I ended up not going to a single panel. So I haven't even watched them on YouTube after the fact yet. Uh, yeah, I mean, to be honest, that was my strategy because I knew that they were going to be putting these all up on YouTube. So I didn't go to too many. I would say that maybe the thing that I did go to that wasn't a Warcraft panel. I wasn't a panel of any kind was, uh, the Starcraft two tournament. Uh, they had a bunch going on, but there was one with Simu Liu, uh, who people might know

[01:23:57] as Shang-Chi out there in the Marvel cinematic universe. And he did a three V three, uh, tournament. Uh, just one game and it was fun as hell. And he played pro toss and he didn't do too bad and he won. So, uh, that, that was fun. And then for about 10 minutes, the homie Rommel and I sat in the Overwatch arena because only at the end of the fucking convention did we realize that that was what was going on down there. So we sat down there for like 10 minutes and watched the badge from like the front row.

[01:24:24] We just happened to get these front row seats in this old packed arena. Uh, we did see that. And that was bad-ass. The, the, the Starcraft stuff is still, I love it so much. And I, and I'm, I'm just so happy that that's still going on. Um, all right. Uh, next question, uh, from snope who I also met, uh, snow. Uh, good to see you. Good to meet you out there. And, uh, thanks for, uh, thanks for, thanks for being a dedicated and loyal listener.

[01:24:52] And, uh, it was good to be you out there at, uh, at the Marriott. His question, uh, what alternate history shenanigans would you be interested in seeing in forever? I could see the devs making some jokes about and nods to the retail timeline at least. We were just talking about that a little bit. Um, what other alternate history shenanigans do you think you'd like to see? Hmm. Changes. Hmm.

[01:25:25] It's a good question. That is a very good question. Uh, I suppose like because we're getting this horizontal progression, right? It's going to stay at 60 and the way they're going to do it is like the game, the game's going to expand like outwards rather than upwards.

[01:25:50] So like maybe stuff like, I don't know, Cthulhu survives and then maybe takes over Slythus. Maybe he wins. And then we get like a second in a Zothra, uh, Cthulhu raid. Nice. Maybe like, I'd love to see like what some of the other old gods would look like in low poly graphics. I think that'd be interesting. Um, um, I don't know.

[01:26:19] There's so much kind of cool stuff that could do there. Could we eventually end up going to Northrend again with, with that old style of gameplay? But like, cause Wrath was where it all started going wrong. You know, people remember Wrath fondly, but Wrath was where it all started going wrong. And it's like, we started getting like, uh, LFG systems, which I think ruined the social fabric of the game. Like even, I even thought that back then.

[01:26:46] And, um, you know, we had flying mounts already at that point. So like, what would it look like if we did go back to Northrend and I suppose like they kept the sort of classic sensibilities instead? Maybe we don't even go and fight Arthas. Maybe we just like, you know, fight his lieutenants or something.

[01:27:11] Maybe we, I suppose like one of the things that was supposed to happen in Wrath originally was we were supposed to go to, I can't remember the name, a genre route, I think. And that was supposed to be like a whole raid. It was a huge zone. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, ah, what's he, what's he called now? Anubarak. Anubarak was supposed to be, Anubarak was like, they really under, they underestimated how much people loved Anubarak. Anubarak.

[01:27:40] And they just, they just slapped him in some five man dungeon and people freaked out. So then they brought him in back in some shitty, shitty raids, which again, didn't do justice. Theater or whatever that was. Yeah. So maybe like they make a whole sort of, if they do like well forever expansion someday, I would love to see like what it would look like to have a Northrend where Anubarak's the big threat. Anubarak.

[01:28:07] And we never go, we never get to the point of fighting Arthurs. We just beat back Anubarak. And it explains why he's such a bitch in, in retail, I guess. Because like the heroes of WoW forever battered him or whatever. I don't know. I think, I think given, given Anubarak a new lease on life, I think would be an interesting thing for me. That's what I'm going with. Yeah. I got to see something with Varian because that's the only place now where Varian's alive,

[01:28:36] you know, and he's supposed to be in some sort of, uh, you know, dungeon out there, out in the Echo Isles or something. I vaguely remember something about that way back in the day, but, um, now that he's alive again, I'd like to see something with him. Maybe he gets split back into two, maybe Logosh, you know, comes back, something like that. But it gives, gives, gives an opportunity to breathe life back into my boy and not just be a pile of ash, which sucked. All right.

[01:29:05] Next one, uh, coming up from rack. If BlizzCon was structured like a high school prom dance, high school prom dance came up twice. BlizzCon was structured like a high school prom dance and you both had to vote for the king and queen of BlizzCon 2026. Who would be getting your guys's votes for this year? I mean, Holly, I can't, I mean, Holly's gotta be, she's the queen forever of all time. Uh, but I would say Holly and Josh Greenfield because I felt like his presentation with the forever stuff.

[01:29:34] I just, he just something about him. Just, uh, what, what did, what did Maria Kondo? The, the, the cleaning lady say the spark joy, spark joy. Oh yeah. Those would be my two. How about you? Any disagreement there? Sorry. I got distracted there. What was the question? Who would be your, uh, your, uh, high school prom king and queen of BlizzCon? I say Holly and Josh Greenfield.

[01:30:02] Oh, we don't do this prom thing in Britain. We're far too miserable. A Hearthstone guy for one thing. He was good. Yeah. I can't remember his name. I really apologize, but he gave a great, fantastic presentation. He did.

[01:30:18] But also, um, um, Zalatath's voice actress, because she created a epic meme. You naughty boy. She was getting heckled by a bunch of pervs. Yeah. She did good. Don't ask her to take her shoes off, people. Jesus Christ. Act like you've been there. Uh, next question from Dave, uh, from, uh, SoloQ.

[01:30:47] Oh, I also got to meet. It was good to see you, buddy. Good to meet you. If you want me on the show, happy to come anytime, any day. Let me know. If BlizzCon was structured like a high school prom dance and you had to wait in line in a line for two to three hours with your date to get a timeless photograph keepsake, would you go to the Hilton or the Marriott to start drinking instead? And I am team Hilton forever. And I know it's the noisiest one.

[01:31:14] And I know that it's, it's ear splittingly loud sometimes, but I gotta be where the action is. That's just, uh, that's, that's just how it goes. Uh, team Hilton, uh, forever. Uh, but Jez, I don't know. I feel like you're a team Marriott lifer. Yeah. I too. I love a Marriott band. Like Marriott's like pillows and mattresses, man. Do you know they sell their own pillows and mattresses? No. Yeah.

[01:31:43] So you can, you can buy the bedding from Marriott cause it's that good, man. Okay. But I gotta be team Marriott cause Microsoft has a big contract with them. And every time I do anything with Microsoft, I somehow end up staying in the Marriott, I think. So I've got, I've got to be on brand, man. I've got to be on brand. Well, this, this show has good representation. Horde Alliance, Marriott Hilton. You know, we, we, we really try to cover everything here.

[01:32:12] Uh, last question for this episode. Uh, this comes from Cardboardist though. We have limited knowledge of what wow forever fully entails. Do you see it potentially rivaling how much time you spend in retail? And for me, definitely not. I, I'm sure I'll play it and it, it'll be a great kind of side thing when things get slow and I want to just kind of spend some time in Azeroth doing a thing, but, uh, retail

[01:32:41] for life. And I, good, bad, indifferent. I, maybe that's my own psychosis, but there's, there's no way, baby. Retail, retail for life. Just even if we can just complain about it. How about you? Do you think, do you think wow forever could ever, uh, uh, rival your retail time? I don't think so. And I got like, I've got like six, something like 16, 17,000 hours in retail now.

[01:33:13] Um, I mean, it's, it's difficult because like we touched on, like retail is so easy and convenient now. You just like, Ian was kind of talking about this, like in classic and in forever, you're going to have to like sit there and like work towards making a group. If you want to go anywhere, like right now in retail, you can log in, go to the Dungeon

[01:33:38] Finder, instantly get a group for like mythic 10 and just do a quick mythic run in between, um, like in your lunch break. Like the start of this podcast, I was actually wrapping up a den of Nalarak 10. So I apologize for that. Um, you know, and, and, uh, and that kind of thing. But like in that game, you've got to make connections. You've got to know the tanks, like your friends list will be full of the good tanks and the good healers, you know, and you'd be begging them for runs.

[01:34:06] I'm going to be a tank in Warfarebo because I remember how annoying it was trying to actually get a good tank, um, as a, as a DPS. So, um, so I think like, because of that, a lot of people will end up playing forever more just because it demands it. It demands a bigger time investment, I think. Um, but, uh, I'm really curious, like if they can improve retail because I think if they

[01:34:33] just keep rolling the same format, like people are fed up with these like void assaults. Like every patch is like, oh, there's a new assault mechanic and you know, and it's, they've got to do, they've got to, they've got to have a sit, they've got to sit down and really think about the state of retails, non-riding, non-mythic plus gameplay loop looks like. Cause I think it's getting pretty stale right now. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. All right.

[01:35:02] I think we've done a net damage for one episode or at least part one of one episode. Uh, for those who don't already know, where can the good people find you on the internet? Yeah. Yeah. You can find me on Twitter at Jez Corden, J-Z-C-O-R-D-E-N and, uh, on windowscentral.com forward slash gaming and also Xbox two podcast. If you listen to, if you're interested in Xbox kind of general gaming news. There you have it. Uh, my thanks to you, sir.

[01:35:32] And, uh, to all of you for tuning in and remember you can always follow me and the show on Twitter at berserker rage and unshackled underscore fury, where you can enter to win this $80. Wow. Forever package. So get your asses on the thing on blue sky at berserker and unshackled fury as well as on YouTube at unshackled underscore fury. And of course on Spotify, you can also join our discord links for which are in the profile of the show on Twitter and on our website, unshackled fury.com.

[01:36:00] Feel free to contact the show with your questions, comments, or otherwise through any of those resources or email us at unshackled fury show at gmail.com. And you can find this show wherever you get your podcasts. So once again, thank you for listening. Remember to keep your swords wet and your banners high, and we'll see you next time. Farewell.